Brake Upgrade Information V2.0

bjf180

New Member
I realise that this might sound pretty whack but is it not possible to use newer model lancer brakes on older models for an upgrade? For example using CJ brakes on a CE.
 

pLethora

Active Member
Lifetime Premium Member
I realise that this might sound pretty whack but is it not possible to use newer model lancer brakes on older models for an upgrade? For example using CJ brakes on a CE.
Without actually having tried or known anyone who has I am going to say no mainly due to the fact that the caliper brackets would most likely not fit as well as many other factors.

I dont think the CJ Brakes are better then the Magna/FTO Front options anyway so not many people would bother trying.
 

pelican

Active Member
i think @hornunga fiddled with something like that unsuccessfully... iirc there was lots of cutting and grinding and modifying parts and it still didn't work in the end? the deets are somewhere in his build thread i think, but tl;dr: if it's not in the spreadsheet, it probably doesn't work
 

unclepaulie

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Premium Member
i am 99% sure you can use CJ ralliart 294mm front discs on FTO hubs.

the issue is caliper bolt spacing: FTO/CE and prefacelift vr4 and outlanders are all 130mm

magna, facelift vr4, evo, 380 are all 160mm and i would put money on the CJ being the same.


rears do bugger all in the scheme of things. FTO and satria bolt on. anything else requres a lot of fab work & ultimately isnt worth it.
 

unclepaulie

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Premium Member
Yup, thats in the spreadsheet already.
But yeah, i would also assume they are 160mm spacing too.
just to note on your spreadsheet

ec5w legnum / ec5a galant VR4 (prefacelift) 96-98 will give you 5x114.3 294mm discs and twin pots to suit. same caliper as FTO but with larger brackets. you've noted them as 276mm.

most 16" 5x114.3 wheels will clear 294mm brakes too.
 

pLethora

Active Member
Lifetime Premium Member
just to note on your spreadsheet

ec5w legnum / ec5a galant VR4 (prefacelift) 96-98 will give you 5x114.3 294mm discs and twin pots to suit. same caliper as FTO but with larger brackets. you've noted them as 276mm.

most 16" 5x114.3 wheels will clear 294mm brakes too.
Regarding the wheels yeah, but I'm kinda putting it on the safe side in case someone just happens to have that wheel size that wont work. I put a note about it I believe in the wheel size cell.

I'll move the ec5a, it's only in the caliper section anyway which in reality all the calipers can actually be placed on any of the brackets as long as the rotor thickness requirements are met etc. But from a little research they are the same caliper but they do have a different cast number, this may not be true on Australian shipped models though as I found most info overseas
 

Jimmib

Member
Ok, so when you're upping the brake calliper size and adding discs to the rears it is recommended to up the brake cylinder size to 1" I see that the TS Magna has one that LOOKS like the same thing only 25.4mm instead of 22.22mm like the CE lance/mirage but I believe it changes the pedal feel and I was wondering if there was a booster you could use that would help to keep the pedal feel AND improve the stopping power with bigger/better brakes to go with the more power I am planning while maintaining legalities.
 

donki

Administrator
Forum Administrator
We've tended to go with imperial measurements for the Master cylinder - the stock CE i believe is a 7/8ths of an inch. The next incremental size up is the 15/16th, and the largest is a 1" inch (of the known bolt-on options). The master cylinder changes how much pedal is needed to push the brake caliper's piston - i run the 276mm twin piston fronts, 260mm disc rears, and braided lines all around and still the stock booster and Master and the pedal is still okay, and only "bottoms out" when under sudden braking where the wheels lock anyway.

Ideally you want to change both the MC and the Booster, as the booster makes the pedal pressure easier to use. I believe the Evo3 unit bolts up
 

staahnaah

Active Member
State Event Organiser
Ideally you want to change both the MC and the Booster, as the booster makes the pedal pressure easier to use. I believe the Evo3 unit bolts up
Also evo4-6 boosters fit.. bit of effort trying to fit it with the engine in but definitely do able
 

Jimmib

Member
So what I am getting from this is Evo 1-6 brake booster will be an upgrade from the stock mirage/lancer unit? And there is also another Magna cylinder that is like 1 1/16" or 1 1/8" but also has a 2nd unit of like 1/2" of something mental and I am guessing that is NOT a blot in option
so I knew that the 1" master is the usual goto with the increase in brake sizes but I am looking at using the SINGLE piston 276mm front callipers from a CG/CH and the matching rears (262mm) but not 100% sure how well that will work for me with those units and mounting and what not. But they still run a 7/8" master like the CE (both ABS/non-ABS and Manual/Auto ) so I am not sure how they are doing so without a difference in pedal feel unless they have a different booster perhaps.
 

Bigfoot

New Member
I believe the single piston CH calipers are the same or very similar in piston size to the CE, so the fronts would have basically the same feel. If you swap to rear discs as well then the feel will change, as our CE masters are setup for drums, and the proportioning required is different. Many people run rear discs with the CE master without issue, but the balance may be off a bit.

I would suggest you do your brake disc/caliper upgrade first, keeping the stock master cylinder, and only look to change it if you are unhappy with how it feels/works.
 

Jimmib

Member
yea that's the plan ..... I am considering testing a different proportioning valve from something WITH rear discs IE proton Satria provided they don't have it built into the master cylinder and I can find one as up here in Newcastle we don't have much that isn't a commodore or falcon. or typically newer than 2010 on. and I hate to travel if I don't need to especially at the moment. Also, there is a billion pages of information of what does and doesn't fit the FRONT what about how to adapt to REAR discs outside of CC GSR/E1-3 and proton. Is it like with the front? Does CG/CH hubs etc NOT fit the rear as well? and WHAT is required to make it work?

edit: Actually that's another thought .......... as I am fairly certain the proportioning IS built into our master cylinder would swapping to one from the same vehicle as the brakes (despite being the same size) allow for better proportioning? assuming I don't like what I end up with :D
 
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Luke-H

Member
The
yea that's the plan ..... I am considering testing a different proportioning valve from something WITH rear discs IE proton Satria provided they don't have it built into the master cylinder and I can find one as up here in Newcastle we don't have much that isn't a commodore or falcon. or typically newer than 2010 on. and I hate to travel if I don't need to especially at the moment. Also, there is a billion pages of information of what does and doesn't fit the FRONT what about how to adapt to REAR discs outside of CC GSR/E1-3 and proton. Is it like with the front? Does CG/CH hubs etc NOT fit the rear as well? and WHAT is required to make it work?

edit: Actually that's another thought .......... as I am fairly certain the proportioning IS built into our master cylinder would swapping to one from the same vehicle as the brakes (despite being the same size) allow for better proportioning? assuming I don't like what I end up with :D
The proportioning valve is seperate to the master cylinder and can be found on the firewall. The CE and FTO proportioning valves are identical so there is no benefit to swapping valves.
 

Jimmib

Member
Cheers are they identical to look at or identical part number because they can be the same outside and still work differently internally (same part number=same function).

And MUCH more important, is the rears and what parts I will actually need to make the rears work and I know there are easier and harder ways but I can't just bung a complete rear arm on as A) I no longer have them because B) I hear that the CG/CH 4x114.3 Rear disc Trailing arms etc won't fit/work in the rear of a CE lancer/mirage due to geometry changes iirc.
 
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