4G93 into Mirage, now 4G94 into Mirage
- Thread starter martian_mirage
- Start date
martian_mirage
New Member
Interesting list Matty, thanks.
I think I understand why you recommended most of these bits.
You changed the sump from 4G94 to 4G93 so is that why you changed the crank angle sensor and bottom cover?, no other reason?
My 4G94 throttle body is a three wire so thats good but different plug to the 4G93 engine loom so I'm guessing I gotta change the plug on the 4G93 loom?
If I'm cutting and splicing wires for the TPS I'd like to be certain on one point.
4G93 TPS has geen,black and green/white wires
4G94 TPS has green,black and light grey wires so I think I'm splicing green to green, black to black and light grey to green/white??
Cheers,
Greg
I think I understand why you recommended most of these bits.
You changed the sump from 4G94 to 4G93 so is that why you changed the crank angle sensor and bottom cover?, no other reason?
My 4G94 throttle body is a three wire so thats good but different plug to the 4G93 engine loom so I'm guessing I gotta change the plug on the 4G93 loom?
If I'm cutting and splicing wires for the TPS I'd like to be certain on one point.
4G93 TPS has geen,black and green/white wires
4G94 TPS has green,black and light grey wires so I think I'm splicing green to green, black to black and light grey to green/white??
Cheers,
Greg
matty said:
martian_mirage
New Member
I have ordered an Aussie spec 4G93 ECU from DSTuning which has the immobilizer disabled and will be loaded with stock 4G94 settings.
Any reason why the 4G94 ECU out of the CH donor would not work in my Mirage if the immobilizer was disabled??? (that is an option I have considered)
Cheers,
Greg
Any reason why the 4G94 ECU out of the CH donor would not work in my Mirage if the immobilizer was disabled??? (that is an option I have considered)
Cheers,
Greg
chowetime said:
matty
Active Member
It could work, you'd probably need to wire in the knock sensor though. It was just easier to use the 1.8 ecu as you also get a bonus redline of 6750rpm instead of 6250rpm. I swapped bottom covers because the crank sensor is part of the lower cover on the 94 and the plug at the top is different, just ease of swap really. As for the sump I already had an aftermarket exhaust fitted so with the 4g94 sump on it was contacting, also the pressed steel sump is lighter than the cast alloy one. As for tps wiring you'll have to check that with a multimeter to match the wires, it may very well be colour to colour but on the off chance that it's not it's safer to check.
martian_mirage
New Member
Did I mention I date to the Jurassic period?
If you saw me trying to use a multimeter you would either take pity and smother me with a pillow or roll about laughing LOL
I thought maybe if I could compare two wiring diagrams one for a CE 1.8 and another for the CH 2.0 maybe the TPS wiring issue would be solved but Gregory's bible has wiring diagram with 4 wire TPS, dammit
I have a frankly crappy CD rom with pretends to be a Lancer manual and that does depict a TPS for my CH 4G94 and they have my green/black/grey wires so if I could view a CE 1.8 diagram showing a three wire TPS I might figure it out???..............
Can't find a CE wiring diagram like that..........
If you saw me trying to use a multimeter you would either take pity and smother me with a pillow or roll about laughing LOL
I thought maybe if I could compare two wiring diagrams one for a CE 1.8 and another for the CH 2.0 maybe the TPS wiring issue would be solved but Gregory's bible has wiring diagram with 4 wire TPS, dammit
I have a frankly crappy CD rom with pretends to be a Lancer manual and that does depict a TPS for my CH 4G94 and they have my green/black/grey wires so if I could view a CE 1.8 diagram showing a three wire TPS I might figure it out???..............
Can't find a CE wiring diagram like that..........
matty said:
martian_mirage
New Member
About the TPS plug swap/wire splicing deal.........
I could not find the wiring diagram I wanted but I found a few assorted diagrams on Lancer models CE and CH probably from different countries, different motors.
From these I learned that a three wire TPS always had a black wire going to pin 92 of the ECU so splicing black to black seems a safe bet.
The other two wires always went to pins 81 and 84 but a variety of colours were seen, not consistent.
So I checked the wire colours leading to my 4G93 and 4G94 ECU plugs at pins 81 and 84.
This I think tells me which wire colours to splice.
I'm always worried about anything electrical so if there is an electrically savvy member reading this could they please tell me what is the worst case scenario if I get two (81,84 pin) TPS wires arse about???
Does my ECU catch fire?
Does my TPS blow up?
Or does it maybe just not start, not run correctly?????
Cheers,
Greg
I could not find the wiring diagram I wanted but I found a few assorted diagrams on Lancer models CE and CH probably from different countries, different motors.
From these I learned that a three wire TPS always had a black wire going to pin 92 of the ECU so splicing black to black seems a safe bet.
The other two wires always went to pins 81 and 84 but a variety of colours were seen, not consistent.
So I checked the wire colours leading to my 4G93 and 4G94 ECU plugs at pins 81 and 84.
This I think tells me which wire colours to splice.
I'm always worried about anything electrical so if there is an electrically savvy member reading this could they please tell me what is the worst case scenario if I get two (81,84 pin) TPS wires arse about???
Does my ECU catch fire?
Does my TPS blow up?
Or does it maybe just not start, not run correctly?????
Cheers,
Greg
martian_mirage
New Member
Greetings Earthlings
Apologies to any who may have taken an interest in this project, house repairs are demanding most of my energies.
When last heard from this Martian was pondering the complexities of adapting CH engine electrical bits on my 4G94 2 litre to my CE Mirage loom and the vibes were all bad.
Much thinking followed.....................
To recap, my build was about doing what I reckon Mitsubishi ought to have done if they cared about what the Aussie public would want engine wise if they were given a choice of engine in the CE.
In the spirit of cars like the Sigma 2.6, that showed Aussies love a big torquey engine in a compact package. I figured the tractable and torquey 2 litre 4G94 could provide the kinda effortless urge the dependable but sedate 4G15 fails to in the CE.
My 4G94 engine was, as far as was practical, to be kept in stock CH tune as it left the factory.
The full CH wiring loom was salvaged from the donor car and has been fitted to the Mirage with minimal mods.
I'm useless with electricals so my plan was to do as little cutting and splicing of electricals as I could get away with.
My build is also about a bare bones lightweight chassis with no thought for creature comforts nor Bling.
Its by no means finished as the pics show but the 2 litre is finally installed and although the car looks like a bomb hit it the motor STARTED after a little more cranking than usual (dry fuel system), yes I was bloody flabbergasted!!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184128066/
To limit electrical mods I have adapted the CH instruments to the CE dash and likewise the CH column stalks/combination switches.
Instrument cluster pic shows a beige line at the top which is an MDF trim strip which gets matte blacked. Ch cluster fits pretty well in CE dash as its a little smaller than the CE cluster. Mounting brackets needed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184241024/
At first I thought I would just use the CH alloy column bracket (similar to the CE) to mount the CH ignition switch and stalks to the CE column but I was hankering after the CH 4 spoke steering wheel and that's not adaptable to the CE column.
My solution was to adapt the whole CH column using modified CH lower mount and modified CE upper mount, looks promising anyway.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184138545/
Mostly I'm only cutting and splicing wiring on simple items like light bulbs to make plugs compatible.
A sparkie will be needed to hook up a few things like the wiper motor.
Not surprisingly some branches of the CH loom are shorter than ideal but thankfully most are too long.
The most "FUN" electrical task has been the under dash fusebox (blue box on the right)
I first positioned the dash loom so that the branches leading to instruments, ignition/stalks would reach. This had the fusebox dangling over the throttle pedal. Not good.
The CE dash loom has a much longer branch leading to its smaller fusebox and this loops around the throttle assembly to keep it out of the way.
The CH loom has a short thick branch going to its bulkier fusebox, limited options.
I found I could get the fusebox to snuggle the A pillar by rotating it 180 degrees so it was not getting kicked now but the throttle pedal arm/cable rocks back towards the driver when you hit the gas and it was smacking the fusebox wiring branch, sigh.
The throttle pedal arm has several kinks in it and I unbent one of those kinks. That helped wire clearance but now the throttle cable geometry was shot to hell. Two custom brackets needed. One to extend the length of the throttle pedal arm (I can't weld) and another to mount the cable itself. Fabricated custom bracket to mount the fusebox to the A pillar assisted by a tensioned cord at the top because the upper fusebox mount in the CH is a horizontal peg and that was too hard to duplicate in the space I was working with.
Tidying up the wiring jumble is next task to be done in conjunction with dash trial fit.
The weight reduction calls for no aircon or sound so space under the dash might be best served by a custom duct to go from blower to heater.
Engine bay looms enter the cabin through the same firewall/bulkhead hole the CE left engine bay loom uses but I also found the bean shaped hole used for aircon pipes useful for the other.
CH engine bay fusebox repositioned where CE cannister goes and CH cannister now mounted down low on front left siderail.
New CH radiator fits well and expansion tank repositioned to Right front Siderail. No fans fitted yet but will get around to adapting one CE fan.
Start test was conducted using 4G93 engine pipe with CE Mirage Cat and catback. Expect to use modified 4G94 engine pipe (rear mounted O2 sensor) to get sump clearance needed with stock Mirage cat and custom 2 inch catback exhaust.
I elected to use the Mirage 4G15 tranny as this Mirage is a city car and I recalled Chowetime is a fan of this tranny.
4G94 clutch was found to be in good nick so was refitted with new release bearing.
4G94 was due for a timing belt so that was done whilst the motor was out.
The bulky aircleaner box will have to go as its trying to take over the engine bay. I think I will use a 3A racing enclosed pod filter.
Much weight saving has been done. The aim is to to have the finished car under 900kg.
Converted to manual rack and pinion steering which as some of you already know was a long term nightmare. I finally got a good complete rack from a friendly Ebayer over in Adelaide.
Special thanks to Chowetime for lots of accurate info and tips and thanks to supernOva for his thoughts on weight saving.
Now back to house renovating...........groan.
Apologies to any who may have taken an interest in this project, house repairs are demanding most of my energies.
When last heard from this Martian was pondering the complexities of adapting CH engine electrical bits on my 4G94 2 litre to my CE Mirage loom and the vibes were all bad.
Much thinking followed.....................
To recap, my build was about doing what I reckon Mitsubishi ought to have done if they cared about what the Aussie public would want engine wise if they were given a choice of engine in the CE.
In the spirit of cars like the Sigma 2.6, that showed Aussies love a big torquey engine in a compact package. I figured the tractable and torquey 2 litre 4G94 could provide the kinda effortless urge the dependable but sedate 4G15 fails to in the CE.
My 4G94 engine was, as far as was practical, to be kept in stock CH tune as it left the factory.
The full CH wiring loom was salvaged from the donor car and has been fitted to the Mirage with minimal mods.
I'm useless with electricals so my plan was to do as little cutting and splicing of electricals as I could get away with.
My build is also about a bare bones lightweight chassis with no thought for creature comforts nor Bling.
Its by no means finished as the pics show but the 2 litre is finally installed and although the car looks like a bomb hit it the motor STARTED after a little more cranking than usual (dry fuel system), yes I was bloody flabbergasted!!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184128066/
To limit electrical mods I have adapted the CH instruments to the CE dash and likewise the CH column stalks/combination switches.
Instrument cluster pic shows a beige line at the top which is an MDF trim strip which gets matte blacked. Ch cluster fits pretty well in CE dash as its a little smaller than the CE cluster. Mounting brackets needed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184241024/
At first I thought I would just use the CH alloy column bracket (similar to the CE) to mount the CH ignition switch and stalks to the CE column but I was hankering after the CH 4 spoke steering wheel and that's not adaptable to the CE column.
My solution was to adapt the whole CH column using modified CH lower mount and modified CE upper mount, looks promising anyway.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93358098@N04/11184138545/
Mostly I'm only cutting and splicing wiring on simple items like light bulbs to make plugs compatible.
A sparkie will be needed to hook up a few things like the wiper motor.
Not surprisingly some branches of the CH loom are shorter than ideal but thankfully most are too long.
The most "FUN" electrical task has been the under dash fusebox (blue box on the right)
I first positioned the dash loom so that the branches leading to instruments, ignition/stalks would reach. This had the fusebox dangling over the throttle pedal. Not good.
The CE dash loom has a much longer branch leading to its smaller fusebox and this loops around the throttle assembly to keep it out of the way.
The CH loom has a short thick branch going to its bulkier fusebox, limited options.
I found I could get the fusebox to snuggle the A pillar by rotating it 180 degrees so it was not getting kicked now but the throttle pedal arm/cable rocks back towards the driver when you hit the gas and it was smacking the fusebox wiring branch, sigh.
The throttle pedal arm has several kinks in it and I unbent one of those kinks. That helped wire clearance but now the throttle cable geometry was shot to hell. Two custom brackets needed. One to extend the length of the throttle pedal arm (I can't weld) and another to mount the cable itself. Fabricated custom bracket to mount the fusebox to the A pillar assisted by a tensioned cord at the top because the upper fusebox mount in the CH is a horizontal peg and that was too hard to duplicate in the space I was working with.
Tidying up the wiring jumble is next task to be done in conjunction with dash trial fit.
The weight reduction calls for no aircon or sound so space under the dash might be best served by a custom duct to go from blower to heater.
Engine bay looms enter the cabin through the same firewall/bulkhead hole the CE left engine bay loom uses but I also found the bean shaped hole used for aircon pipes useful for the other.
CH engine bay fusebox repositioned where CE cannister goes and CH cannister now mounted down low on front left siderail.
New CH radiator fits well and expansion tank repositioned to Right front Siderail. No fans fitted yet but will get around to adapting one CE fan.
Start test was conducted using 4G93 engine pipe with CE Mirage Cat and catback. Expect to use modified 4G94 engine pipe (rear mounted O2 sensor) to get sump clearance needed with stock Mirage cat and custom 2 inch catback exhaust.
I elected to use the Mirage 4G15 tranny as this Mirage is a city car and I recalled Chowetime is a fan of this tranny.
4G94 clutch was found to be in good nick so was refitted with new release bearing.
4G94 was due for a timing belt so that was done whilst the motor was out.
The bulky aircleaner box will have to go as its trying to take over the engine bay. I think I will use a 3A racing enclosed pod filter.
Much weight saving has been done. The aim is to to have the finished car under 900kg.
Converted to manual rack and pinion steering which as some of you already know was a long term nightmare. I finally got a good complete rack from a friendly Ebayer over in Adelaide.
Special thanks to Chowetime for lots of accurate info and tips and thanks to supernOva for his thoughts on weight saving.
Now back to house renovating...........groan.
martian_mirage
New Member
Hi Christine.
No the Mirage, or "The Mutant" as my friend christened it has not had a test drive. No drive shafts, steering undone, no dash, vulnerable unwrapped wiring, no front panels, temporary exhaust etc.
My Spring objective was to get the motor in and running and to nut out the quirks of the CH loom and thats mostly done so an anvil has been lifted off me, phew!
Summer calls for a ton of house jobs and I don't see a lot happening on the Mutant soon but Autumn will see me getting greasy paws again
BTW now that I know the CH loom can be wrestled into a CE a part of me is wishing I had thrown caution to the wind and tried to do a 4G69 but realistically the 4G94 is probably the most practical choice for my needs. The 4G69 is a nice fantasy though
Cheers.
No the Mirage, or "The Mutant" as my friend christened it has not had a test drive. No drive shafts, steering undone, no dash, vulnerable unwrapped wiring, no front panels, temporary exhaust etc.
My Spring objective was to get the motor in and running and to nut out the quirks of the CH loom and thats mostly done so an anvil has been lifted off me, phew!
Summer calls for a ton of house jobs and I don't see a lot happening on the Mutant soon but Autumn will see me getting greasy paws again
BTW now that I know the CH loom can be wrestled into a CE a part of me is wishing I had thrown caution to the wind and tried to do a 4G69 but realistically the 4G94 is probably the most practical choice for my needs. The 4G69 is a nice fantasy though
Cheers.
chowetime said:
martian_mirage
New Member
I am aware that its possible to get a 4G94 running in a CE using a mess of 4G93 bits.
What nobody could tell me was how WELL it may run..............
Please bear in mind that the 94 only has an 8% capacity advantage over the 93 to start with. No room at all for lost efficiency. My dilemma with the "93ised" 94 was what effect are those substituted 93 parts having on the tune of the 94???
Only a dyno test of a bog stock 94 versus a 93ised 94 would say and thats not going to happen.
A different cam, inlet manifold, ECU/map, ignored knock sensor, blanked EGR was LIKELY to alter the tune of the 94 significantly.
Quite possible the 93ised 94 would not perform as well as a stock 4G93.
From what I have read of other peoples experiences with flashing of ECU's its not an exact science and comes with no guarantees. In Matty's famous 4G94 build thread he was agonising a bunch of times about his choice of ECU 93? 94? 93? 94?
At the end of the day the only SURE way I could have my 94 run as it does in the CH was to run it with all the bits it left the factory with.
True the Ch loom comes with compromises which in my stripped out, lightweight, bare bones build is not an issue for me.
Many of the forum members adore their bling, their power gadgets and adapting all those CE electrical items to a CH loom would be one for the electrical genuises so my CH loom trick is not for everybody.
I do have the satisfaction of knowing my build is, unique
What nobody could tell me was how WELL it may run..............
Please bear in mind that the 94 only has an 8% capacity advantage over the 93 to start with. No room at all for lost efficiency. My dilemma with the "93ised" 94 was what effect are those substituted 93 parts having on the tune of the 94???
Only a dyno test of a bog stock 94 versus a 93ised 94 would say and thats not going to happen.
A different cam, inlet manifold, ECU/map, ignored knock sensor, blanked EGR was LIKELY to alter the tune of the 94 significantly.
Quite possible the 93ised 94 would not perform as well as a stock 4G93.
From what I have read of other peoples experiences with flashing of ECU's its not an exact science and comes with no guarantees. In Matty's famous 4G94 build thread he was agonising a bunch of times about his choice of ECU 93? 94? 93? 94?
At the end of the day the only SURE way I could have my 94 run as it does in the CH was to run it with all the bits it left the factory with.
True the Ch loom comes with compromises which in my stripped out, lightweight, bare bones build is not an issue for me.
Many of the forum members adore their bling, their power gadgets and adapting all those CE electrical items to a CH loom would be one for the electrical genuises so my CH loom trick is not for everybody.
I do have the satisfaction of knowing my build is, unique
th0m0mx83 said:
th0m0mx83
Active Member
Ive done the 94 swap aswell I did just that, Used the 93 ecu,cam,intake and ecu.
The only issue ive had is cold start jumps to 3k rpm While i havnt dynoed it yet it seems to be quicker then 1.8's
It runs fine tho. Matty has also sorted the "How to flash". Buuuut we dont have knock sensors lol. I admire the effort your going to to get it in. Im interested to see how it goes with it done.
I did just that, Used the 93 ecu,cam,intake and ecu. The only issue ive had is cold start jumps to 3k rpm
While i havnt dynoed it yet it seems to be quicker then 1.8'sIt runs fine tho. Matty has also sorted the "How to flash". Buuuut we dont have knock sensors lol. I admire the effort your going to to get it in. Im interested to see how it goes with it done.
matty
Active Member
93 stock ecu on a 94 is perfectly fine with afrs still being slightly on the rich side, I've had it on the dyno (proper dyno not these computer program guess dyno's that some people have listed their "power figures"). I've loaded the stock 94 maps and was not impressed, car lost torque and just generally felt like poop. My questioning what ecu to use was for flashing purposes mainly and that doesn't matter any more since that's been sorted out. Good effort doing all the above work, it's fun engine for daily use in these lighter cars, not a huge power gain but just that extra torque makes it worthwhile.
martian_mirage
New Member
Thanks, I think the most difficult bits are done now so just a matter of finding the time to finish the rest.
mycarlisa said:
martian_mirage
New Member
Thanks, I'm not expecting any serious problems now. The brief test start had the SRS light on but I expected that. The CH has seat belt pretensioners and multiple idiot bags as standard and even if I wanted that garbage its not possible in a CE so the SRS globe will just go away.
It makes sense that a CE should do well with a 2 litre.
I once worked out that every car I ever drove that went well had at least 2CC's of engine capacity (naturally aspirated) for every kg of kerb weight.
I figure that my sub 900 kg Mirage will have a better power to weight ratio than a 2.4 CH sedan and I rate them as a quick car.
standard
It makes sense that a CE should do well with a 2 litre.
I once worked out that every car I ever drove that went well had at least 2CC's of engine capacity (naturally aspirated) for every kg of kerb weight.
I figure that my sub 900 kg Mirage will have a better power to weight ratio than a 2.4 CH sedan and I rate them as a quick car.
standard
th0m0mx83 said:Ive done the 94 swap aswell
The only issue ive had is cold start jumps to 3k rpm
It runs fine tho. Matty has also sorted the "How to flash". Buuuut we dont have knock sensors lol. I admire the effort your going to to get it in. Im interested to see how it goes with it done.
martian_mirage
New Member
At one point I was thinking of going with a 93 ECU and 94 map but now I'm glad I didn't!
I'm not fussed about horsepower but I am a torque junkie so its sounds promising.
Cheers.
I'm not fussed about horsepower but I am a torque junkie so its sounds promising.
Cheers.
matty said: