Roll Center Adjusters
- Thread starter Spetz
- Start date
tryg
New Member
Why can't you just use the Whiteline products made for your era EVO? You would have to contact them to see if your steering arms are the same end-fitment.
Look here for an explanation on why this is important, and the big cost that will eventuate: http://www.billzilla.org/suspensn.htm
From the Whiteline suspension page:
PRODUCT BENEFITS
KCA395 is designed to raise the front roll-centre geometry by using specially engineered ball-joints & tie rod ends while still maintaining original steering geometry. Front roll geometry actually encourages roll the lower you go. Testing proves that raising the front roll-centre resulted in a substantial increase to front roll resistance & a significant reduction in suspension compression of the outside front wheel during cornering (less roll). This improves weight distribution & maintains a better camber angle which ultimately improves front grip. The overall outcome is significantly reduced understeer through reduced front wheel compression as well as improved steering precision & vehicle stability.
Look here for an explanation on why this is important, and the big cost that will eventuate: http://www.billzilla.org/suspensn.htm
From the Whiteline suspension page:
PRODUCT BENEFITS
KCA395 is designed to raise the front roll-centre geometry by using specially engineered ball-joints & tie rod ends while still maintaining original steering geometry. Front roll geometry actually encourages roll the lower you go. Testing proves that raising the front roll-centre resulted in a substantial increase to front roll resistance & a significant reduction in suspension compression of the outside front wheel during cornering (less roll). This improves weight distribution & maintains a better camber angle which ultimately improves front grip. The overall outcome is significantly reduced understeer through reduced front wheel compression as well as improved steering precision & vehicle stability.
You can use Evo parts however because the Evo runs aluminum lower control arms the ball joint is different.
So to make it run on a normal CE you'd need:
Evo LCA
Evo hubs
Evo IV brakes if running smaller than 17" wheels
5 stud conversion
Different offset wheels (the Evo control arm is longer)
And finally, the roll center adjuster kit
So, it is too big of a cost/work involved to make it viable.
So to make it run on a normal CE you'd need:
Evo LCA
Evo hubs
Evo IV brakes if running smaller than 17" wheels
5 stud conversion
Different offset wheels (the Evo control arm is longer)
And finally, the roll center adjuster kit
So, it is too big of a cost/work involved to make it viable.
You can always raise your car.
Do you know the height of your centre of gravity? How far from your roll centre is it currently?
I dont think there's much else you can do without swapping parts out.
If you can find some drop spindles for the coupe that should help.
You really want to keep the LCA downwards as much as you can, as it's one of the more influential factors of roll centre adjustment, unless I'm forgetting something lol.
You can always fit pokey-er rims to increase your track width, but that won't raise the RC by much.
I dont think there's much else you can do without swapping parts out.
If you can find some drop spindles for the coupe that should help.
You really want to keep the LCA downwards as much as you can, as it's one of the more influential factors of roll centre adjustment, unless I'm forgetting something lol.
You can always fit pokey-er rims to increase your track width, but that won't raise the RC by much.
No I don't know the center of gravity or roll center, It is impossible to accurately find out anyway and considering it is not a race car "assumptions" will be made that after lowering it it would be better to raise the roll center.
I found some elongated ball joints however cannot find anything for the steering and I am apprehensive to alter the angle of the LCA and not the steering rod due to bumpsteer
I found some elongated ball joints however cannot find anything for the steering and I am apprehensive to alter the angle of the LCA and not the steering rod due to bumpsteer
You can get a fairly close value of the CG height by weighing your car at each wheel to get its distribution, then by raising the rear about 250mm the re weighing the front.
There are a few calculators set up online already, all you need to do is plug in the numbers.
CG Height Calculator
RC can be obtained by measuring
height of your LCA @ the chassis,
height of LCA @ the hub,
the distance between
the approximate angle of elevation,
the height of where the shock mounts to the chassis,
the approximate angle of the shock relative to vertical
If you feel you want to adjust your roll centres, your obviously in it for performance so you might as well have a go and calculating it and seeing where you stand, if theres little or lots of gain to be had. Just my 2c.
then with a set of drawing instruments and paper, (or a CAD program to make it easy)
you can draw a scale model of your suspension and work out the roll centre as such.
There are a few calculators set up online already, all you need to do is plug in the numbers.
CG Height Calculator
RC can be obtained by measuring
height of your LCA @ the chassis,
height of LCA @ the hub,
the distance between
the approximate angle of elevation,
the height of where the shock mounts to the chassis,
the approximate angle of the shock relative to vertical
If you feel you want to adjust your roll centres, your obviously in it for performance so you might as well have a go and calculating it and seeing where you stand, if theres little or lots of gain to be had. Just my 2c.
then with a set of drawing instruments and paper, (or a CAD program to make it easy)
you can draw a scale model of your suspension and work out the roll centre as such.
The thing is the car as it stands already has everything done suspension wise. It has braces everywhere, coilovers, adjustable front and rear sway bars, all the bushes have been swapped, and the control arms upgraded (FTO reinforced). So at this stage just wondering what else there is to do. I plan on doing weight distribution and raise the front roll center as on Evo's (which use the same front suspension more or less) I have read users are extremely impressed by the results of this adjustment.
Does anyone remember whether the steering tie rods connect to the knuckle from the top or bottom?
Does anyone remember whether the steering tie rods connect to the knuckle from the top or bottom?
Sure adjusting the roll centre is a good thing, the problem is how.
Without changing your ride height or swapping Evo frońts, it would be easier to lower the front weight distribution.
Which car are you referring to with the steering arms?
Without changing your ride height or swapping Evo frońts, it would be easier to lower the front weight distribution.
Which car are you referring to with the steering arms?
tryg,
you cannot use evo 5/6 roll centre adjusters.
ALso if whiteline specify that roll centre adjusters for evo 4/5/6 are the same then they are wrong.
The lower control arms for evo 4 are different to evo5/6.
I would suggest raising the car because you are also putting too much stress on the cv joints.
you cannot use evo 5/6 roll centre adjusters.
ALso if whiteline specify that roll centre adjusters for evo 4/5/6 are the same then they are wrong.
The lower control arms for evo 4 are different to evo5/6.
I would suggest raising the car because you are also putting too much stress on the cv joints.
Hens, what do you think is a good ride height?
I cannot say how much lower the car sits that stock, but it is on the original setting that the Teins came at.
To give you an idea, it has 205/45/16 tires and there may be about 2-3cm gap between guard and tire at the front
I cannot say how much lower the car sits that stock, but it is on the original setting that the Teins came at.
To give you an idea, it has 205/45/16 tires and there may be about 2-3cm gap between guard and tire at the front
For ride height, I would work out or estimate your suspension travel in a typical hard corner with your coilovers (wont be much, atleast compare to stock).
Then I'd lower it until your LCA is making a 90* angle with the axis of your coils. This is the point where any further travel will cause positive camber.
Then I'd lower the distance of suspension travel that you estimated above and a pinch more, to ensure that even in full travel, around a corner you will gain negative camber.
Then I'd lower it until your LCA is making a 90* angle with the axis of your coils. This is the point where any further travel will cause positive camber.
Then I'd lower the distance of suspension travel that you estimated above and a pinch more, to ensure that even in full travel, around a corner you will gain negative camber.
to find out the travelof your suspension you can put a zip tie around the main rod, at the bottom of the rod
so that when the suspension travvels the zip tie is slid up the rod .: you can measure your suspension travel by measuring how far the ziptie has traveled after a hard corner
science!
so that when the suspension travvels the zip tie is slid up the rod .: you can measure your suspension travel by measuring how far the ziptie has traveled after a hard corner
science!