Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15->4G93 A/T Conversion & Tune

[Phasehalide]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post in this forum and i wanted to introduce my self and start by sharing with you what i have been up to for the last few months

I always wanted a Lancer and finally bought one three years ago from a car yard i drove it heard it and checked as much as i could on the car before buying it and i was happy at the time and thought some things it had would clean up decently down the track with a bit of effort and it would be fine. I performed a basic service on the car few days after i got it and did the engine oil, spark plugs, oil & fuel filters, Transmission oil etc, a few weeks passed and i drove it more and more i found out it must be burning a bit of oil because it wasn't leaking a drop of anything anywhere but the oil level was going down gradually as i drove around.I started learning everything i could about the car going over it reading workshop manuals tuning everything i could get my hands on maintaining and tempering it all the time here and there and as years passed the engine was getting worse burning more oil getting weaker and noisy and it was screaming for a rebuild or swap and i decided to do the latter so i started looking for a compatible donor. I have always wanted to pull that 1.5 12V engine out nearly ever since i got it because it was to weak and not worth doing much to after all despite my initial thoughts. i have always maintained and repaired every car in the family and my own myself and have nearly never had to go to a shop for anything other than parts because i just love doing it all myself and doing it properly.


Here are some details behind the cars the conversion i did and one of my current concerns with the car.

My Car: 1999 Lancer GLXI 1.5l Coupe 2D Manual
Original Engine: 4G15 SOHC 12V MPI, Distributor Driven, Five Bolt

Donor Car: 2002 Lancer MR 1.8l Coupe 2D Automatic
Rebuilt Engine: 4G93 SOHC 16V MPI, Coil Pack Driven, Seven Bolt


Some Of The Various Parts For The Rebuild:

JUN Valve Stem Seals
Hastings Piston Rings 81.0mm
JUN Crankshaft & Conrod Bearings
NOK Crankshaft & Camshaft Seals
Valve Cover Seal
NGK Iridium Plugs
Gates Timing Belt Kit
Gates Alternator & AC Steering Pump Belts
Exedy Heavy Duty Clutch Kit
7 Bolt Manual Flywheel From The US ( 215mm )
Ryco Fuel & Oil Filters
FeelPro MLS Head Gasket


Extra Work Performed:

Measured Clearances With PlastiGauge Method On All Crank/Piston Mating Surfaces
Resurfaced And Treated All Mating Surfaces From Imperfections Scratches From Old Bearings In The Engine
Resurfaced Head And Engine Block Mating Surface (Checked For Warpage And Corrected)
Grinded Imperfections And Ported Head And Gasket Matched Intake Exhaust Ports
Grinded Intake And Exhaust Manifolds To Match Head
Treated Lobes On Crankshaft & Camshaft Engine Block
Grinded & Mated All Valves Into Seats With Permatex Valve Grinding Compound And Leak Tested (The Manual Way )
Every Part Of The Engine Was Degreased Cleaned/Scrubbed Properly
Engine Block, Head And Pistons Where Acid Bathed Degreased
Engine Block Got Repainted Along With Valve Cover And Sump
Used All Mitsubishi Spec Sealants And STA Assembly Lube When Putting It All Back Together
Cleaned Gearbox Internally & Externally Thoroughly Checked Syncro's And For Any Shavings And Resealed
Cleaned Engine Bay Well Before Engine Installation Inspected Joins And Removed Axles Cleaned Wheel Hubs
Cleaned Internal AC Rad Box, Blower Motor, All Air Vents, Heater Element etc


Electrics (The Headache):

Matched Wiring Looms Plugs, Inspected Every Plug For Wear And Tear Cleaned All Contacts
Completely Took Apart Both Wiring Looms To Match Them And To Bypass Other Parts Add Remove (Cruise, Factory Alarm, Auto ECU)
Carefully Removed Auto Transmission ECU From 4G93 Loom And Bypassed Rerouted ECU Pins Correctly
Soldered Crimped And Used Heat-shrink On Any Soldering Joint I Made
Resealed Wiring Looms With Tape And Plastic Channels Mounts etc

(As far as i am concerned the loom is 95% Factory state and appearance
And yes i did have to reprogram the ECU to my original key because i did not have the barrels or key from the donor car.)

Currently the conversion has already been done, striping the MR Donor completely took two days on my own and was done in October 2014 the car was left 85% striped out i got everything except the fuel tank, wheels, steering column, exhaust system, and rear seats. All the wiring was solved except the fuel pump problem that i believe was under the Auto ecu's control and i need to re flash mine so it can control it properly? Not sure.



My Current Problems:

- I believe the car is running quite rich
- During deceleration only it pops in the exhaust manifold quite a bit nearly like a anti-lag system :lol:
- Fuel pump stays on constantly when key is in IGN position and does not shut off like i know it should after a few seconds if i don't start the car. (Should be ok while engine is running right?)
- Fuel economy of course is bad because of the rich situation

Reasons i believe i have these problems and my questions:

Has anyone done what i have done or something similar? maybe could shed some light on my problem?
I would like to know if the 4G93 ECU is optimized for low rpm torque on an AUTO or has a limit maybe compared to the M/T ECU (Just makes sense to me somehow as a possibility)
I have plenty of low end torque but not enough to redline third gear properly it feels like it is tuned wrong to me and the ECU needs flashing or something like that but i don't know.
Does anyone have access to or is anyone able to help with a Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 so i can diagnose log and maybe reflash my ECU or something similar?
Could it be my injectors? i have a set from the 4G15 witch are 166cc instead of 210 can i use them to test with and get more lean without a tune?
i have used a universal scanner and scanned for DTC's but there are none at all, all the live data readings of the scan toll i could see looked good to me...

Thank you for reading such a long first post i hope i have not overdone it too much :why:
I Will be uploading photos soon with most of the work i have done, feel free to ask me if you need info or help on any parts of this project or what you are working on

 

[Hugh-CE]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Running rich is often a fitlthy O2 sensor, if you're popping and banging it's probably blacker than the abyss. (Was hard to avoid a racist joke there) would have a look into replacing / cleaning

A reflash is probably a good idea, shame you aren't down in Vic I have a tactrix laying about somewhere haha.

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Thanks a lot for the advice Hugh, Here is what i have done/tried so far so i could rule out the 02 sensor being a problem completely:
I have three DENSO 02 sensors laying around in my garage two for a 4G93 and one for a 4G15 that is slightly different in sensitivity, i have tried all three of them so far and tested their output voltages manually while the car was running and i also hooked up the car to a universal OBDII scann tool and could confirm the 02 sensor output was being read by the ECU and it was fluctuating as it should when i changed the rpm's.

The voltage i was getting from the sensor was:
Around 100mv on idle at 800rpm
Around 900mv+ when i changed the rpm higher to 3000/4000rpm

This leads me to believe that the ECU can read the 02 sensor correctly and because the voltage was getting as high as 900mv (Rich Mixture) i believe it was telling me that it is much richer at higher rpm which is natural but maybe it should not be that high? At least i am getting the same reading with both of my testing methods...

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

I have ordered a Tactrix Openport 2.0 and it should arrive in a few days in the meanwhile im learning how use EcuFlash and how to log and study the log after a run with the use of EvoScan.
Does anyone know if proper definition files for my engine exist for EcuFlash? has anyone had any experience with reflashing these ECU's?

My Engine Specs:
4G93E SOHC 16V MPI
Man Date: 2002

I also wanted to ask if anyone knows about the fuel pumps in the 1.5 GLI & 1.8 MR/CE if they have different output pressure or liters of flow for the different engines they hook up to? I had to use my fuel pump from the original car not the donor's and i'm wondering if that is causing me to have problems maybe?

 

[charliem]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

It would probably be easier to just test fuel pressure at the rail than digging around the fuel tank.

Inspect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator, if the line is leaking it will be sending full pump pressure at idle (regulator wont open to allow excess pressure to return to the tank), and screw with the air/fuel mix in the ecu....would definitely run rich at low rev, not too sure how it would impact that when you stab the throttle, as its generally closed up when vacuum drops off in the intake manifold.

Looks like this on a 4g15, pretty much identical on the g93.

Edit: I just read the last bit of your post, if the pump is staying on, you have an issue with either the fuel pump regulator, relay, or fuel line pressure not getting high enough to trigger the pump to shut off.
Definitely something wrong there, and thats not caused by an oxy sensor, or a MAF, or temp sensor, or crank angle sensor, or iac...etc..etc....this problem (fuel pump continuing to run) is ONLY in the fuel delivery system.

Fuel pumps are PWM driven to target a given fuel pressure output. If the regulator isnt reading the pressure correctly, it will have a higher than nominal duty cycle to up the pump rate...to get a higher pressure.
When you first turn the accessory power on, the pump will prime the line with the right pressure, in preparation for turning the engine over.

There is really only two things that can cause the pump to stay on when only accessories are powered....

1) The actual fuel line isn't reaching the right pressure (you got a leak somewhere...unlikely, or you got a sick pump)
or
2) The pump isn't reading the pressure correctly

Full disclosure: My formal education is in embedded systems engineering, just taking educated guesses here. :crazy:

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Thanks Charlie,

I was actually testing my FPR today and this is what i did temporarily to see the differences it would make:

I just used two screws and a pit of vacuum hose to seal off both ends, what i saw of course was that i could accelerate harder better all around and the flat spot at low RPM went away as in most cases i have read about.
It is running richer now and popping more on deceleration probably due to the higher fuel pressure in the fuel rail supplying the injectors but i have more all around balance and torque across the range, i think it is time for an aftermarket FPR...

There is no electronic fuel pressure valve that i have seen anywhere unless it is in the fuel tank with the pump which is the only thing i have not pulled apart on the car yet to examine
there are only four wires that go to the fuel pump two thick ones for power and i don't know exactly what the other two thin ones do but they might be for that valve?

I generally don't have any wiring discrepancies after the loom work i did everything got matched i believe correctly and believe me i had to mess around and study with the looms quite a bit due to the whole Auto ECU removal from the 4G93 loom and some other minor changes for example adding the M/T gearbox neutral possition sensor that did not exist previously to pins that where not even wired into those ECU pins.

Here are a few other things i have swapped around to see if they would make any difference:

Those two 02 Sensors and the one on the car currently: with all the same symptoms no change at all.
The smaller 166CC injectors from the 1.5L Fuel rail: it was terrible it lost a lot there so i swapped the original 210CC back in.

Here are a few quick photos of what my engine bay looks like as of today:

My hopes are that the ECU needs to be flashed with the correct Manual Rom for this engine gearbox setup not the Auto one it is still running on which is doing quite well i might add considering i have no CEL or any major issues at all other than the current one, there must be differences on the Auto ECU MAP because there was a CAN BUS link from one ECU to the other and i'm nearly sure it must change some values in either the AFR & Timing or engine load settings.

I will upload more tonight after i have checked the fuel pump trigger pin on the ECU plug I'm just going to disconnect it or measure it and turn the key to see if it still clicks the relay over and opens the pump or not and when. I have examined checked cleaned or replaced every vacuum fuel and water pipe or wire on the car during the rebuild and swap and prior to putting everything back together and everything is in good condition. I will soon find out hopefully with the forums help and the Tactrix which is on it's way to help me log everything.

 

[Trondabron]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

I dont understand how people still do this, atleast without proper equipment. Its not the 1970s where you tune AFRs by exhaust smell.

I would recommend not running with the FPR vacuum source unhooked, for the sole purpose of that its meant to be there.
300kw+ kw evos still run vacuum operated FPR.
Do you have a wideband air fuel sensor fitted, to determine how much richer the car is?
The factory tune is already very rich, (which you would know if you have a wideband installed)
The fuel pump is not PWM controlled, it runs at full flow the whole time, by increasing the pressure at idle, you are just unnecessarily putting strain on the fuel pump.
The only pressure regulation is from the vacuum operated FPR.
Removing the vacuum source from the FPR, will not block the fuel return, it will just operate at the same pressure as would normally operate at WOT.

When people say they put there foot down and there is a flat spot, the putting foot down relieves vacuum in the manifold and hence the FPR, and make the FPR operate at/near atmospheric pressure.
Which is what you are doing by removing the vacuum source. So your not really changing the fueling at WOT, just at idle and light cruise.

I understand everyone learns by testing and applying previous knowledge, so I have given you my thoughts above. You have done great work on the engine buildup, and there is still lots of potential, as seen in other members rides, it would be good to see you go forward with solid gains from measurable evidence, in place of speculation.

 

[charliem]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

What would cause the fuel pump to stay on when the ignition is in accessory position?

 

[Trondabron]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Fuel pump should prime in the ign. Position, not accessories. If that's the case, I'd say your running power to the wrong pins or something, and it's triggering the pump to run all the time. Tbh, I'd just goto the wreckers and get a manual engine loom and ecu. It's guaranteed to run %100.

 

[Zipper]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

We did a g15 to g93 swap and the dona g93 was an auto which we changed to a manual. We used the auto loom (modified) and ECU, it all worked fine.

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

I have only done this to the FPR since yesterday for testing purposes and have not even driven the car more than 2KM yet. The whole reason of doing this is to see what differences it makes and weather the FPR is working optimally, i want to go on another test drive and the i will be putting the correct vacuum hose back on later today because i of course understand it's function and i know it is important to the fuel pump not to not be under such constant pressure especially at it's age. I am just trying to rule out things that may be the cause of my problem on a very low budget not tune it by doing wrong things like this, i know i can't tune the car like this that is not why i have done it. I am getting my Tactrix on Monday so i can properly log and see what is happening.

The fuel pump turns on when the key is in IGN position of course but it does not time out like it should it stays on constantly because i may have the relay + pin in the wrong position on the ECU plug I'm looking into this now actually between posting this so i will know soon. The thing is the loom is perfect neat clean and no wires are scrunched up or cut and taped up every wire is the correct length and it all looks like factory and i have done a very good job with the loom so i doubt i need to get another one again. I will get back to you on how it goes and if i find out what is causing my pump to stay on.

A wideband 02 sensor and a knock sensor are on the top of my priorities so i can tune properly with the Tactrix, I know i need more sensors so i can better determine how the engine is running and i'm all exited about being able to do some rom work next week :clap:

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Zipper did you remove the auto ECU from the loom or just trick it into think it was in Park/Neutral? Because i have removed all the auto stuff completely and cleaned it up.

 

[MadMick]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Remove your centre console and dash/sterio facia, inside the left metal dash upright there will be 2 relays which were attached to the engine harness, upper is ECU relay and lower is fuel pump relay. Remove the lower relay and turn on your ignition, if it stops which it should, check the relay isnt fused causing it to run constantly. Easiest way would be just to switch them as engine relay constatly powered for the test wont hurt, if it still runs you have somehow mixed up your plug wiring somewhere and you will just have to start tracing wires. Im pretty sure there is no sensor for fuel pressure so the ECM will just have a set prime time when it gets ignition power, then when it get a signal from the crank angle sensor it will run the pump. So it will be either the relay, wiring or least likely ECU.

 

[Zipper]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Zipper did you remove the auto ECU from the loom or just trick it into think it was in Park/Neutral? Because i have removed all the auto stuff completely and cleaned it up.

We kept the auto ECU, removed the park/neutral switch and bridged the wires so it thinks its in park/neutral.

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Ok guys i have got my Tactrix OP2 Adapter with the Mitsubishi 2.5mm stereo flash connector!
I formatted my laptop with bualboot and completed a fresh XP SP3 installation but i have a problem, i can use EvoScan to read the DTC's but when i open up EcuFlash to read my ROM i can't.

My ECU Specs Are:
Model: MD360479
Chip: MH7203FA (Thankfully Flashable One)

I have Options for Evo 2nd Gen 3rd Gen but not for a standard Lancer, i cant seem to find the definition XML for that ECU either I'm looking for the 25570100.xml but do not have it in the rommetadata folders.

What i am getting is "no response to any code" "interface close"
I have no where to connect the Mitsubishi 2.5mm stereo connector jack that came with the Tactrix on the loom and that is what i think is wrong, i think i have to splice in some pins from that extra connector to either my OBD port or ECU Pins! Do i need to run a wire from pin #79 on my ECU to the 2.5mm jack tip?

This is the jack i am talking about:

If anyone knows it would be a great help as i am not sure what to do with it yet, i am very good with electronics wiring soldering complex stuff so it will be easy for me to make my self a custom cable but i hope someone especially Hen's or Yukbumer that have done this before know what i have to do at this stage?

Thanks for reading up my posts and trying to help, btw i have not had a chance to check my FP pins yet because i was doing maintenance bodywork and cleaning up the rear end of the car all weekend removing rust spots painting sanding etc but i have finished that now and it looks great!

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

MadMick i know that my FP relay is functioning alright because i checked that when i did the loom up, i tested that back then by removing the +12V relay trigger wire from the ECU plug and of course the pump went off properly when i did that but what i will have to confirm is that i have put it in pin 22 not pin 8 because i was going of what the US 97" ECU pinout was not the slightly different AUS pinout that has them swapped with the AC trigger, "chowetime's" post helped me find out what he AUS pinout is with his awesome thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4280

Thanks Mick

 

[Trondabron]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

The 2.5mm stereo plug goes into the OP2 that goes into the OBD2 port on the car. Should be next to the mini USB plug.

Flashing the lancer ecus seems to be hit and miss, some you can do, some you cant. Its hard to tell which ones you can and cant short of trying each one. The error your getting is possibly due to not pluggin in the 2.5mm stereo plug.

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

I have no where to connect the B70 connector to next to my OBD port. My OBD port only has a wire in pin 12 and nothing in pin 11. There is only one contact on the B70 male plug i have found goes to the tip of the 2.5mm jack and that one is labled OEM12. What i want someone to confirm is if i have to run a wire from pin #79 on my the ECU which already has a green/white wire running to it to that contact on the B70 male?

 

[naughtika]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

are you using the Gli/4g15 interior harness?

from what I've read, some models came with it and some didnt

if yours doesnt come with it, then you might have to run a wire from ecu to where the obd connector is

 

[Phasehalide]

Re: Lancer Engine Swap: M/T 4G15-> 4G93 A/T Donor Conversion

Ok guys found the B70 connector, stupid me forgot that i had positioned it up a little higher on the harness when i did the loom job, after i plugged it in i tested to see if the tip of the 2.5mm jack goes to pin #79 and it does so i have overcome that at least.

EvoScan allows me to log and display gauges perfectly so that is ok it is communicating at that basic level well but Ecuflash does not allow me to read anything at all the version i have is 1.42.2595. Also tried version 1.28 with the ECU unlocker but nothing, i do not believe it is locked anyway. I am trying to read using mainly the EVO5/6 option tha has my ECU chip listed as MH7203F not MH7203FA

I have charged my battery to 14.0V and still nothing even started up the car and let it run for a little while i then run ECUflash and it kills the engine at the time but it still cant read anything. My CEL goes on when i try to read and after it fails the CEL goes back off again. I have tried clicking the ok button exactly the same time i turn the key to IGN but no change. I am seriously stuck and need some insight.

Fuel pump is alright now and does not stay on when key is in the IGN pos either so that has been taken care of also. Really want to get stuck into reading my EEPROM and perfecting it but don't know what to do anymore what else to try? :wtf:

(EDIT)
Got it!!! :clap: It was the EcuFlash's Version that need to be the latest one V1.44.4361 Beta worked i now have my ECU's Rom in a .bin file i can look at later but i can't modify it yet because i need a definition .xml for it do you recon that would be hard to find?