CH 4g69 Turbo conversion

SDate42 said:
Just some quick numbers/info dump;
you need aprox 10lb per min of air for every 100hp you plan to make
pressure ratio is the inlet pressure divided by atmospheric
Left and right hand sides of the compressor map are big no-no areas. Left is surge, right is too hot.
Being under the map, I can't recall, I think its just inefficient due to shaft speed too low

So you want 7-9psi of boost? Gives you a pressure ration around 1.7ish.
4g69 makes 160hp, should double at 1bar boost, so we can say roughly that at 7-9 it wont make double but atleast 100hp extra. So for airflow we look to be around 25-30lb per min.

That sits you in the lower 1/4 of the maps for any of the turbo' we've talked about. Should give you a visual now when you look at maps. The closer to the center islands the better, too far right is hot, too left is surge. You won't hit the top of the map, don't stress!

You should be able to see the difference now, the 3071r will be in a good range at 9psi and making 250-300hp, but as you build up to those you may find it lackluster. 3071r is not as huge as I anticipated, still has a fairly good low response but I reckon you'd notice it. Small AR housing is a MUST or it'll be so slow to spool, there's such a big gap in the housing charts!

For a comparison, consider a 4g94 making 200hp at a pressure ratio of 2 for both a 3071 and a 2867 and that is a really obvious difference in turbo efficiency and makes your choice easier.
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How do you work out the inlet pressure your engine makes to determine the pressure ratio?

I’ve recently become more educated on turbo specs and the calculations on working out the most efficient turbo. Trying to figure out the math for a peak 300hp on a 4g69, but i don’t know how tf to work out pressure ratio
 
Radical_Ralliart said:
How do you work out the inlet pressure your engine makes to determine the pressure ratio?

I’ve recently become more educated on turbo specs and the calculations on working out the most efficient turbo. Trying to figure out the math for a peak 300hp on a 4g69, but i don’t know how tf to work out pressure ratio
Click to expand...
Pressure ratio is inlet pressure over atmospheric. We usually discuss boost pressure relative to atmospheric. Atmosphere is 14.7PSI, if you want to make 10PSI of boost, your pressure ratio calc is (14.7+10) divided by 14.7. Gives us 1.68. I think I rounded up in my last post.

On an N/A car, you can only ever have a maximum of near 0PSI (relative) inlet pressure, so that is calculated as (14.7+0) div 14.7, giving us a pressure ratio of 1.

That's also just the peak number, so while the turbo spools its going to be a little different, but you get the idea and you can visualise where it might sit on the map.
 
SDate42 said:
Pressure ratio is inlet pressure over atmospheric. We usually discuss boost pressure relative to atmospheric. Atmosphere is 14.7PSI, if you want to make 10PSI of boost, your pressure ratio calc is (14.7+10) divided by 14.7. Gives us 1.68. I think I rounded up in my last post.

On an N/A car, you can only ever have a maximum of near 0PSI (relative) inlet pressure, so that is calculated as (14.7+0) div 14.7, giving us a pressure ratio of 1.

That's also just the peak number, so while the turbo spools its going to be a little different, but you get the idea and you can visualise where it might sit on the map.
Click to expand...
Okay awesome thank you for that, I’ve had a look at that compressor map differently now.

Not sure how well i can control how many lbs/min the engine can output, but looking at the chart being at a maximum of 10psi, running about 25 lbs/min of airflow sits me right at the bottom of the efficiency island.

Looking at that figure now doesn’t look very ideal especially when i’m only using stock internals..
 
Just had a read through the compressor maps for GT2871R and GT2867R turbos, it seems with the 2867R i’m alot closer to the middle of the efficiency island with a pressure ratio of 1.7 and an airflow of around 25 lbs/minIMG_7594.jpegIMG_7595.jpeg
 
Radical_Ralliart said:
Okay awesome thank you for that, I’ve had a look at that compressor map differently now.

Not sure how well i can control how many lbs/min the engine can output, but looking at the chart being at a maximum of 10psi, running about 25 lbs/min of airflow sits me right at the bottom of the efficiency island.

Looking at that figure now doesn’t look very ideal especially when i’m only using stock internals..
Click to expand...
Lb/per min is a figure that relates to HP and is a direct result of the engines efficiency.

You can actually calculate it at any point, but we’re talking generalisations anyway AND focusing on max HP conditions.

You’ll find your motor will use approx 10lbpermin for every 100hp made. So 300hp is around 30lbpermin.

Combine what you know about your motor already. It makes 160 at 0psi. That should double at 14.7psi.

So 300hp is found at 30lbper min and at around a pressure ratio of 2.
 
Radical_Ralliart said:
Just had a read through the compressor maps for GT2871R and GT2867R turbos, it seems with the 2867R i’m alot closer to the middle of the efficiency island with a pressure ratio of 1.7 and an airflow of around 25 lbs/min
Click to expand...

Dont have to be in the middle but that is somewhat ideal and gives you room to be wrong in calculating things. If you are in the middle at peak HP you’ll be on the map in good spots while spooling, which is the main difference if you go for the 3071.
 
SDate42 said:
Dont have to be in the middle but that is somewhat ideal and gives you room to be wrong in calculating things. If you are in the middle at peak HP you’ll be on the map in good spots while spooling, which is the main difference if you go for the 3071.
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I did check out a post by @Fab360 with his topmount turbo 4g69 build using the smaller 2871R turbo, i believe he was using a 0.86 rear housing which would make the boost come on later. Just judging off his tuning numbers for a stock 4g69+T over 300 whp is pretty nuts

I could use that turbo with the bigger turbine housing, even on 7psi of boost would be a significant power increaseIMG_7620.jpeg
 
Yeah his ported manifold and fab work will make that difference, along with water/meth injection.

That’s a good build to go off tbh. 2871 is still a fairly chonky turbo, it’ll do you well. Also probably be able to take it with you to your next car when you get over the CH, provided it doesnt explode :tearsofjoy:
 
I’ve unfortunately made the decision to shelf the turbo ideas for my 4g69 CH, it’s not the right time for me now, but i’m happy to give out any info to anyone else and discuss about boosting 4g69’s. Still very interested in this topic.

I have heard that Alvin from off the clock motorsports is currently gathering information and experimenting with a certain red boosted CH in queensland though.
 
So quick update, the turbo idea is back on BUT i’ve got alot of saving to do to come up with a comprehensive turbo kit for the CH which would include a standalone ecu.

For this i’m thinking of buying a Link G4X storm standalone from RPW, mainly because of the patch harness they make.

This link ecu kit will cost $2310 and includes:
  • ECU, Plug-In Patch Harness Kit
  • Air Temperature Sensor
  • Programming Software
  • USB Communications Cable and Quick start Guide
My idea for now is have it all hooked up to the car while its still n/a, so i can play around with tuning and settings so when the car is turbo the ecu is all ready for it
 
Yeah wow. I would guess it's an older Storm unit then, but still fairly good value. The latest v3 retails for around the price listed there without a patch loom.

I would be confirming the requirements about wideband control too, that cost can stack up a little if you forget about it.

I'm just going to shoot you a quick DM too
 
Following intently gentleman. I'm very curious as to the route you will take radical. I was thinking of a GTX3071, but also have to consider packaging with the 69 being crammed into a CE. I think the top mount would be a decent option considering the starter location too. Keep us all posted mate! Sdate with the goods as always
 
I’ll try to keep this thread updated when i make progess definitely.

I was looking at turbo sizes again, and i’m thinking for my power goals a GT2871 or GT2867 might be fine for what i want.

I can actually find IWG turbos of this size too on the pulsar website as well
 
I dare say that the 2871 will be the go, but that's all part of the planning I suppose. Part of the reason I wanted to go for a pulsar unit was the ability to go for a T51R mod out of the box. I have a feeling an LSD will be a necessity, this will no doubt blow the tyres off with the earlier spool time
 
Not sure if i’d want the T51R mod, just imagining the constant whistling while highway cruising would be a bit annoying

At the moment i’m thinking, an IWG GT2871 turbo, 3” exhaust, 2.5” intercooler piping, standalone ecu, 565cc injectors, 255lph fuel pump

Eventually i’d like to have an LSD in the gearbox and 1.8L CE lancer gear ratios and final drive so the gears aren’t so short, and an action clutch stage 2 clutch kit to handle the extra torque
 
So i’ve found a few things of interest with the turbo conversion, hopefully i can afford to buy these later this year

I found this beautiful stainless steel top mount manifold made for the 4g69 from canada. It does have a T3 flange so if i want to run a 2871R turbo i’ll need to have that changed to a T25 flange.

IMG_8974.jpeg

And this turbosmart IWG for the SR20 GT28 turbos look almost identical to the IWG on the pulsar 2871 turbo, would be a nice addition to change the wastegate springs whenever i want

IMG_8994.jpegIMG_8991.jpeg
 
Brilliant find mate! Finally a manifold that actually looks to be well made. Any idea on cost once shipped and converted? I may jump on the bandwagon with you if you’re doing an order.
 
At the moment theres only 1 available on ebay from canada, including shipping its comes to around $1450 aud

Though i’m chatting with a fabricator from the states who might be able to make a more compact manifold for around $800 for me
 
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