CE Lancer ECU tuning

donki

Administrator
Forum Administrator
Have you set up the injector latency vs bat voltage for them injectors? also are they high impedance?
I have, it works really good under high load/in boost and WOT, just idle and cruise is a bit *fudge*y. I once found the latency v volts figures, but since forgotten the website, but i was close enough anyway to only need to fine tune it. Im interstate at the moment, so i wouldnt be able to say what they were. From memory, the 14v is about 0.922, and 11v is around 1.009, or something near that. Scaling is around 900, but im not too sure why because theyre 565cc's, but its all running well otherwise in ceddymods
 

robauflog

New Member
Using Olivers rom worked perfectly on our 98 Mirage with a 4G93 swap. No need to swap keys, keybarrel or immob unit as ceddymods disables it! (Thanks donki for the conformation). Was just wondering what MAF, and what parameters is everyone running for the 4G93 MAF, (Scaler) (Adder) etc, as we have a G94 MAF which according to https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/lancer-engine-management-tuning-forums/437909-lancer-maf-swap-step-step-guide.html , found the stock parameters and so far using those parameters for the MAF settings seems pretty similar to the 93 MAF if not the same?

Only issues so far is constant CEL which needs a knock sensor to be wired in, and also need to reflash a re calibrated tune for the G94 MAF as the car was seeing 170% load at WOT and reaching parts where i haven't been bothered to tune in the map yet as we're still N/A and eventually going turbo sometime next year. Car should be near 100% load if i'm correct

(Not sure if this has been posted or if anyone knows about this) Also found out for anyone who is running or planning to run E85 ceddymods map switching is enabled via a switch on Pin #44 "Map Switching is connected to Pin #44. A switch must be added that grounds the pin or leaves it open. A chassis ground is acceptable to use" So we will be testing this when we try to go E85 eventually, will report how it goes eventually.

Finally any hope for a fuel octane sensor, to determine % of ethanol to help adjust the tune on the go or am i asking too much of a 4G93 ECU?
 

donki

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MAF sensor might be the same, depends on the number listed on it (605, 449, etc), the evo stuff is a larger diameter with a higher maxed out point, but the std g93/g94 will be enough for almost anything you can do to the engine.

Knock sensor will take a tonne of work, because you need one that will pick up the certain frequency of knock that a g93 resonates at. This is like 8377kHz or something like that, and an off the shelf one wont work accurately. Standalone ecus can pickup any knock sensor signal, but then you still have to go through and folter it to change gain and sensitivity at rpm ranges

WOT is 97-100% load yes. Map switch should work, but I dont know anyone thats tried it and had it work (or otherwise).

Flex sensor wont work. I think Cedric was looking into coding for it, but didnt finish. Tephramods on the evo7 Ecu can do it, but thats a different chip on the ecu so it works much differently.
 
Knock sensor from the 4g94 oz lancer works perfect on the 93 engine.
As for flex fuel I believe the vr4 guys came up with something but you have to buy a special box from them.
From the code I have looked at and worked on I believe it is possible to use the subroutine that is used to interpolate between the stock ignition map and the warm up retard ignition map to set up flex fuel.
That whole sub is controlled by a table that uses a percentage vs temp so at say 80 deg it uses all of the ignition map and none of the ign retard map.
So instead of temp vs percentage you would use the flex input vs percentage between two of each ign/ fuel/ve and boost maps.

I do not currently have a car as I have no room with my work van but if somebody wants to try it I am more than happy to help out on the coding.
 

robauflog

New Member
Too easy, will try a G94 knock sensor in the near future, as for the flex fuel that sounds quite interesting and could be cool project to try in the future on our Mirage once we are boosted !

This coming weekend will re flash a new tune that i've adjusted for our MAF which should solve our issues.

Final question for now, if i'm correct the G93 is tuned for 91 correct, and Oliver's tune i think is for 91 also, so in theory i should have a bit of head room to play with the timing? As i read i think on mirageforums.net that you can add +4 timing to the map for a little bit of performance gain, but more importantly i want to reference my timing map off a EVO 7 timing map (high octane map), however i don't want to tune it too aggressive just yet (without a knock sensor), if you look at the EVO 7 base timing map (low octane) it resembles the G93 stock timing map pretty closely, which is obliviously tuned very conservative, so i was thinking the 93 must be tuned conservatively for 91 and have a little bit of headroom for 98 octane? and then to use the EVO 7 map to help guide me in the right direction past 100% load, but obviously not copy and paste it but reference and tune it conservative as much as possible using the EVO7 stock map? The car will always be on 98 octane for now so it should be happy with a little bit of timing boost?

Cheers lads.
 

robauflog

New Member
Also to add, did a bit of re reading the thread, and donki i noticed when in a high gear and low rpm and you decide to WOT, the car hesitates (or like a rolling anti lag happened to us)...same thing is happening here.

Have a look at the following log from our mirage when we did it. It reaches 160% load which is what i was talking about in my last post, and its reaching the outer part of the map and just pulling timing and which is why the car doesn't like it, BUT! if you slowly increase the throttle at the low rpms is sits around 106% load and accelerates perfect without hesitation, im not sure if its related to launch control or just MAF scalings, ill keep you all posted after the weekend and see if my recalibration does anything lol.

mirage issue.PNG
 

donki

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Youre mixing up a few things, terminology as one, e.g. antilag is retarded timing and additional fuel, resulting in a lot of flame going into the turbine causing boost, there is no hesitation with antilag. My issue was the fuel injector cutoff kicking in very quickly, which ive since resolved. Im also turbo, so theres a tonne of other things that can can issues lol

The USA dont have the same grade fuel as us. Same go with the Japanese fuel, however all japanese cars are tuned (high performance ones anyway) to 100 octane, which on aus 98 encounters knock and thus retards.timing a couple of degrees. The USA 91, while is often compared to our 98, is graded differently, and unless you get a vial of the stuff through customs to check yourself I highly doubt they're close enough to take their tuning advice willy nilly.
Grab a dyno, grab a knock sensor, and tune to mbt on aus 98, then then you'll be have a tiny tiny kick of power while NA.

Every engine responds differently to tuning and timing changes. Mine might love +6 on 91, but yours might struggle with +2 on 98. There are so so many variables with it, from bearing clearances in micros, oil contamination, fual grades, fuel flow, electrical noise, piston carbon build up, ring gap, spark plugs, and so much more.
 

donki

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If you want a Street tune, so.out on the road. 3Rd gear, 50kmh to redline and datalog it. Add +1 timing from 3000rpm to redline. Another run. See where the torque band changes. Repeat about 15-20 times, along the exact same stretch of road. If power starts to slow down its rate of increasing, back off 2 degreea and dont touch that figure again. Done, you now have a WOT/road tuned car.
 

robauflog

New Member
Appreciate the detailed response donki, helps clear up what to do in the future and helping me learn as I really am just starting off, so any help would be appreciated. Was planning on doing road runs like you said and monitoring with EvoScan and wideband to watch A/F, It’s just up to fine tuning the car until perfect from here on.

Just to add, I probably phrased myself wrong, for example when WOT in 3rd for at around 1.8k rpms, the car would literally bounce at that specific RPM and pop and bang exactly like the ceddymods Launch Control/Anti-lag (if I’m phrasing that correct) because it was reaching 170% load on the map which on the current tune is -7 degrees timing, thus retarted the timing and just dumping fuel and creating the sensation of a rolling anti-lag (if what I’m saying even is anti-lag). I thought you had the same issue like ours where it didn’t like wot at low rpms, sorry about that...

I’m assuming it’s a bad maf scaling and will have to play around with it.
 

donki

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Appreciate the detailed response donki, helps clear up what to do in the future and helping me learn as I really am just starting off, so any help would be appreciated. Was planning on doing road runs like you said and monitoring with EvoScan and wideband to watch A/F, It’s just up to fine tuning the car until perfect from here on.

Just to add, I probably phrased myself wrong, for example when WOT in 3rd for at around 1.8k rpms, the car would literally bounce at that specific RPM and pop and bang exactly like the ceddymods Launch Control/Anti-lag (if I’m phrasing that correct) because it was reaching 170% load on the map which on the current tune is -7 degrees timing, thus retarted the timing and just dumping fuel and creating the sensation of a rolling anti-lag (if what I’m saying even is anti-lag). I thought you had the same issue like ours where it didn’t like wot at low rpms, sorry about that...

I’m assuming it’s a bad maf scaling and will have to play around with it.
Was tired as hell yesterday after a 13hr work day, didnt mean for my reply to sound like i was snapping at you or anything lol.

First things first you'd like to have your AFRs in the sweet spot. WOT and cruise, by checking trims, and scaling and latencies to fix it. Then, you can start on the timing. The 4g15, 4g93, 4g63, and a few other cars (WRX for example at like 9.5:1) are tuning very rich from factory. This is a bit of a savior for the Evo, due to the "aggressive" timing, as additional fuel will help prevent knock to a certain degree (remember, it was tuned originally on 100 octane). Lean out the AFRs when under WOT/high load (life hack: help the engine get more air and fuel, an air intake and exhaust will help more air flow into and out of the engine, thus leaning it out! More air + more fuel = more power), and then small adjustments to timing will help it run mint from there onwards.

Anti-lag is usually not a very aggressive jerkyness, and more of a burble/pops and bangs - it shouldnt unsettle the car and helps the turbo spool about 0.3s faster lol. It can also make mad flames, but yeah. I think it sounds like it might be maxing out the tables. I know on the stock standard ECU if you hit a load figure higher than 100%, it will hold and use that last figure to make its calculations, until it hits a limit where it should go into limp mode which is massively retarded timing and a tonne of fuel, which is very close to how an antilag tune is done anyway. Im not sure if this is a time based or load based limit. It also sounds like the MAF is scaled incorrectly, because on slow throttle movements up to WOT it runs well, but jumping from idle to WOT would throw out the sensor due to the sudden change in the intake vac level
 

robauflog

New Member
Haha its all good mate!

Cheers for the info again, its always good to hear from people who know better before i start doing stuff...

Random question, have you heard of beeble tuning? Tunes all sorts of Mitsubishi's, have had a good chat with him during a tuning session for a friends Ralliart and he has also given me a great insight and literally has said the same stuff so its good to confirm from another source. Worst case scenario ill get him to have a look over the tune (if hes happy to) and clean it up if i fail horrendously. Really good bloke too, happy to share his knowledge, taught me little tricks such as pulling timing on low load to get pops and bangs/flames and how to get fueling perfect if its off by a couple points by playing with the maf scaling and heaps of other goodies which im guessing you already know haha.

Going to completely re-do the whole map starting from scratch learning on the way now that the car runs for now on the current tune.

Also last thing, 30% load isn't normal for idle is it? i'd assume around 10%ish? Im hoping thats got to do with the MAF settings.
 

Johnzy

Member
Evoscan is a tuning/datalogger software. You don't put evoscan on the ECU. It's used to read it etc.
As you can probably tell I know very little about this.

I guess the question is can it be used with a ce ecu?

I would like to learn more about tuning but I'm unsure were to start.
 

pLethora

Active Member
Lifetime Premium Member
As you can probably tell I know very little about this.

I guess the question is can it be used with a ce ecu?

I would like to learn more about tuning but I'm unsure were to start.
Lol well. From my understanding it's the only publicly available one that can read a ce ECU with the correct cable.
 

donki

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Lol well. From my understanding it's the only publicly available one that can read a ce ECU with the correct cable.
Theres a fair few, evoscan is one of the more wellknowns. Theres also Mitsulogger, but they all do the same thing, and all are half useless unless you're actively reading that datalog and adjusting to suit
 

XxOLIVERxX

Member
Yes evoscan works with ce straight out of the box.

How have you guys been going in getting this running correctly?

I’m going around in circles and getting no where. I’m having issues with idle being inconsistent and often wanting to idle at 13.9 afr.

I’m seeing strange behaviour I can only assume is due to difference in the Evo engine and ours and the base coding for calibrations is slightly different. Meaning what we are putting in even if correct will not be calculated the same as the standard ecu rom.

I’m now starting to think we have no choice but to build a complete definition file for the audm 4g93. Add in ceddymod features to the original rom not the other way around.

Anyone know someone competent in HEX coding? Id be happy to pay for someone to build a complete and correct defjnition file for our stock rom. Would be way easier getting all the fine tuning bits correct that way
 

donki

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I'm running ceddymods flashed to a stock 4g93 ECU without too many issues. Idle is up and down, but by over-riding it with the BISS it works well enough/I'm pretty sure my IACV unit is completely *fudge*ed anyway and has been for ages so that doesnt matter.
On 565cc injectors dialed in and set right, my idle is around 14.6-15.2, cruise is around 13.6-14.2, and under boost exactly where i want. I'm also running duals maps, on full time e85 which is a pain to redial in but it works well and absolutely loves boost
 
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