CE Lancer ECU tuning

donki

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So is that to say that the ROM still to this day hasn't been completely decoded? That sucks!!

The evo5/6 has been to maybe 75-80%, more than enough to get a car running. The 4g93 is maybe 25%, but enough for what the car is.
 

SDate42

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Q: When in open loop, the only thing that changes is that the ECU no longer references the 02 sensor, correct?
 

donki

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Q: When in open loop, the only thing that changes is that the ECU no longer references the 02 sensor, correct?
Correct, it used the same calculations of air temp and flow, and rpm, but no longer attempts to put effort into making it stoich/reading the narrowband
 

Jimmib

Member
So I have bit the bullet and have a Tactrix cable on its way ..... CBF buying a wideband just yet but have access to a dyno so I can just use that one for time being .... I haven't finished turbo setup just need to finish stockpiling metal for pipework and mounts, in the meantime, I figure I will use my time and tidy up Mitsubishi's "fine" tuning work and make it as efficient as I can for the time being as its still a runaround :) Any Idea how accurate the timing is from factory? as fueling will be an easy fix, by comparison.
 

donki

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So I have bit the bullet and have a Tactrix cable on its way ..... CBF buying a wideband just yet but have access to a dyno so I can just use that one for time being .... I haven't finished turbo setup just need to finish stockpiling metal for pipework and mounts, in the meantime, I figure I will use my time and tidy up Mitsubishi's "fine" tuning work and make it as efficient as I can for the time being as its still a runaround :) Any Idea how accurate the timing is from factory? as fueling will be an easy fix, by comparison.

You will need a wideband, no ifs or buts about it. If you change timing incorrectly, you wont know, so then you should/need to adjust fuel to suit. A wideband will let you know what sort of misfire you 'll have, because i guarantee you will and trying to narrow it down to plugs, fire, or timing related takes time and the wideband will cut the effort in half. Any dyno worth their weight will put their wideband up the exhaust , but this result is sometimes skewed because of leaks, cats, etc.

Timing is pretty good from factory, though a little bit relaxed. Its designed for 91 fuel, with no feedback loop to increase or decrease timing for any reason. Fueling is very rich, and you'll pick up a couple of hp simple by leaning out the higher kpa fields. I dont recall if there is a flame front speed difference in lower and higher octane fuels, but you might be able to get away with keeping timing as is, and leaning it out a little bit. This might be the best case scenario. If higher octanes have a higher flame front, theres no point increasing timing as you'll go past MBT very quickly
 

Jimmib

Member
The joy of dyno time is they have a built-in wideband (the tailpipe spike bit) Hence the not needing one just yet if I was to just road tune it then different story but will have realtime feedback of AFR's without having to shell out another $400-500ish.

edit: but this is also true about not being 100% accurate but also happen to have access to about 50 combined years of dyno tuning .... or more!!!! so I am fairly confident that we wont have too many issues
 

donki

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Something to note on that, is that the CE doesnt have the ability for live tuning, so you'll need to datalog during normal driving to really get the full picture, and then stop the car, add in your changes and rinse and repeat. This is where the wideband would have teh advantage, however it sounds like you have near limitless dyno access so it shouldnt be a problem.

There is thousands of threads online about tuning; utilising EVOM will be a big help due to how closely the CE and 4G63 are in regards to engine. Should be enough info in this thread, especially the more recent pages, for ROM and definitions.
 

SDate42

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Lifetime Premium Member
another thing to add:

Donki, you should get a GM 3 bar map sensor and wire it in to pin 75, sensor ground and ecu 5V, i took this from the tps and mounted it on the firewall. you can then log boost pressure in evoscan! i used a chinese knockoff sensor and working well. dirt cheap on ebay and makes tuning faster even if sticking with a MAF rom.

Bit of a late reply, but do you happen to have link or part number to the sensor you use and a corresponding Voltage reference table? Ceebs forking out $200 and I’d rather use a known working setup.
 

XxOLIVERxX

Member
Im just using a cheap chinese GM 3 Bar Map sensor from ebay. The one I bought has blue, red and yellow wiring connector included
 

Jimmib

Member
So I am failing horribly at finding an XML file for the 4g93 (CE generation) if anyone happens to know where it is hiding on the interwebs please speak up! Google has failed me as has Tactrix and EvoScan sites!

Also, need to know how to find numbers to confirm F or FA chip? is it open the case time or is part number enough?
 

Jimmib

Member
This is the model number and if I need to open up his do you do so without destroying the case
 

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donki

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So I am failing horribly at finding an XML file for the 4g93 (CE generation) if anyone happens to know where it is hiding on the interwebs please speak up! Google has failed me as has Tactrix and EvoScan sites!

Also, need to know how to find numbers to confirm F or FA chip? is it open the case time or is part number enough?

You need to open the case and physically confirm. You'll see the F or FA on the square-ish 15mm X 15mm black microchip.

When you read the ECU, if you have the correct definition installed, it'll automatically bring up all tunable options. HOWEVER, you must check the first option within ECUFlash where i think it has the "option" list called ROM.

Near to, or at the bottom of the ROM list, it will have the F or FA chip type but this is according to the definition. If you ECU is F and the definition is FA (or vice versa) you must close the program, edit the definition to match the ECU, and then do it again.

If you try to write a tune with F to an ECU with the FA chip (or vice versa) you will brick the ECU.
 

Jimmib

Member
Thanks for the heads up @donki is the definition built into the 1.44 (or whatever the latest version is) so I can find it automatically? and for others wanting to check it is an easy process once you work out HOW to open it! There are 4 tabs (2 Top 2 Bottom) use some "guitar picks" like those used for opening laptops and phones for repairs and then slide it out (I used one of the loom plugs and gently slid it out so as not to damage the plug)
 

donki

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Thanks for the heads up @donki is the definition built into the 1.44 (or whatever the latest version is) so I can find it automatically? and for others wanting to check it is an easy process once you work out HOW to open it! There are 4 tabs (2 Top 2 Bottom) use some "guitar picks" like those used for opening laptops and phones for repairs and then slide it out (I used one of the loom plugs and gently slid it out so as not to damage the plug)
http://auslancer.com/index.php?threads/ce-lancer-ecu-tuning.9142/page-9#post-238603
this post and a couple of my follow posts should have the correct definition. If not, post up in here again with the ROM number and ill have a look through my laptop if i have it.

I've done the same, guitar picks or 20c coins will also do the job (plus they go *DING* when it opens and it sounds like you win the pokies lmao
 

Jimmib

Member
@donki You are a godsend I have a definition file! it works it says ALL the right things mostly :D I mean lancer is what it was made for so I can't really hate on that! next thing is can I use this for the Evoscan as well instead of trying to use Evo stuff that's not 100% accurate. and also I know it's covered elsewhere but I want to triple check I have the info right that I have found AEM UEGO X-SeriesP/N 30-0300 can be run to the ECU for logging so I don't have to do the serial cable daisy chain of potential doom?
 

donki

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@donki You are a godsend I have a definition file! it works it says ALL the right things mostly :D I mean lancer is what it was made for so I can't really hate on that! next thing is can I use this for the Evoscan as well instead of trying to use Evo stuff that's not 100% accurate. and also I know it's covered elsewhere but I want to triple check I have the info right that I have found AEM UEGO X-SeriesP/N 30-0300 can be run to the ECU for logging so I don't have to do the serial cable daisy chain of potential doom?

Most welcome man, let us know how you go with the tuning!
ECU is apparently able to support i think its 0-1v output from the wideband (technically its the wideband controller), but i personally havent been able to do that. I think @Trondabron has successfully done that though.
 

Jimmib

Member
So there is some stuff on the evolution forums so I will have to read as apparently they can with their ECU's but that is a later problem.
Right now I am looking at the logs and from and as far as the from is concerned is 513 injector scaling accurate or is that just a standard thing that Evoscan reports unless it gets told otherwise?
Also on Evoscan is it possible to get the XML I am using in Ecuflash (cerom.XML) to work in Evoscan as I cant tell it to use the .XML file as it will only let me change to a .hex file unless I am doing it wrong but there seems to be very little info anywhere as to how to make this all work (or am I being too fussy?)
 

SDate42

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Premium Member
So there is some stuff on the evolution forums so I will have to read as apparently they can with their ECU's but that is a later problem.
Right now I am looking at the logs and from and as far as the from is concerned is 513 injector scaling accurate or is that just a standard thing that Evoscan reports unless it gets told otherwise?
Also on Evoscan is it possible to get the XML I am using in Ecuflash (cerom.XML) to work in Evoscan as I cant tell it to use the .XML file as it will only let me change to a .hex file unless I am doing it wrong but there seems to be very little info anywhere as to how to make this all work (or am I being too fussy?)

the 513 is the default for evoscan. You’ll need to adjust that to suit your injectors. I personally only spent a short time trying to bring my own roms and defs into evo scan with minimal success. I’m sure it’s all doable and would make life easier with the tracer working over your own rom - but I have lived without it. I think the main drama for me was the def. Easy way to bring the rom in would be to take a copy of it from the ecu via evoscan.
 

Jimmib

Member
So I just had a light bulb moment from something I was reading today by merlin about the EVO ECU's and fuel trims (and was triggered by @donki) mentioning trims.

So he says in his how to tune PDF file I was reading that the EVO ECU is capable of +/- 15% LTFT limit and a +/- 25% STFT limit what are the limits of the 4G93 Trims do we know?
 
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